Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith: and why I hated this piece of crap movie!
DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU'VE SEEN THE FILM OR DON'T MIND SPOILERS. TO DISCUSS MY FEELINGS ON THE FILM I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO MENTION A FEW KEY THINGS THAT MAY SPOIL THE MOVIE FOR YOU. IF YOU WANT A SPOILER-FREE REVIEW...HERE IT IS: I HATED IT.
Also, because I'm so passionate about this...this post is very long. I apologize to those of you who don't wish to wade through it all, but I can't write my feelings on this movie in 500 words or less. If any fellow bloggers on the L&N are upset at the length of this post...I'm sorry. Really not trying to be a space hog (hey, I love that band)...just trying to do justice to the feelings I have following this film.
First, I am not a hater. I'd like to think that after a decade of heavy movie-watching that I have learned to be as fair as possible to a movie. Chris, you may have to vouch for me here. See, generally Chris and I agree on most movies. We just have very similar taste.
Second, I'm not the guy to dump on a movie because my expectations were too high. In fact, if I go in with expectations that aren't met...I'm more prone to overpraise the film. Example: Matrix Reloaded. Loved it when I saw it. Looking back now...when I'm more objective...and it's really inferior to the first one. I still like it a lot and still think it's better than most critics gave it credit for...but I wanted it to be so good that I couldn't see it's flaws when I first saw it--how sterile and detached and emotionless it all was.
Third, I love Star Wars. I love all three original trilogy films, and I think Empire is the best of the entire lot. I can see flaws in those films, for sure (Mark Hamil's acting, some dialogue problems, etc.), but I love them. I enjoyed Phantom Menace strictly for the fact that there was finally another Star Wars movie out. The duel with Maul at the end is awesome. But the movie is seriously boring in spots. And bad acting abounds. Then came Attack of the Clones. More boring. More bad acting. More bad dialogue. But again, the ending saves it somewhat with dozens of Jedi fighting side by side (wet dream) and Yoda in a lightsaber duel (I whooped and hollared).
And so that should get you caught up on my Star Wars background and frame of mind. I went in to Revenge of the Sith expecting some bad acting, some bad dialogue, and some boring-ness. But I knew going in that there would be more lightsaber duels than in all the other films combined. And I knew we'd see Yoda fight again. And I knew Obi Wan and Anakin had to fight at the end. So I fully expected to love this thing. I fully expected to go gaga. Afterall, the lightsaber duels are my personal favorite thing about the Star Wars films. I was expecting to hate some parts but love the whole.
Unfortunately, the opposite happened...I loved some parts, but I hated the whole. That's right. I didn't like Revenge of the Sith. I hated it, actually. I think it was crap. The first sentence I uttered (to my roommate) upon standing up as the end credits rolled, was "Man, I should've stayed home and slept."
Here I am a day and a half later and I still feel the same. And I'll now try and detail why without sounding like one of those critics who takes joy in bashing a film. Like I said, I love Star Wars, and even like the first two prequels overall. But this one did nothing for me. I do not enjoy what I'm about to say. I'm pissed that this movie misses the mark so badly for me. My surprise at my own reaction to the film is what has prompted me to even write this review and post it to L&N.
I do best with bulleted lists. We'll start with what I didn't like:
- As Chris mentioned...the Anakin and Padme dialogue was beyond annoying. "You are so beautiful." "That's because I love you." "No that's because I love you!" Gimmie a break. And the rumor is that Tom Stoppard (Rosencrantz & Gildenstern Are Dead, & Shakespeare in Love) did an uncredited rewrite on the film's dialogue! I hope not. If he did, I know why he didn't want credit. At two points midway through the film I actually groaned out loud and rolled my head back on my seat at the awfulness of the lines. Just bad writing. "You're breaking my heart Anakin!"
- Horrible Acting. Okay, there's just no way for me to believe anything other than that George Lucas kills good performances with his directing. Maybe it's because there's so many scenes the actors shoot with a green screen, and they can't connect to the scene. Maybe it's because he's just a horrible communicator regarding what he wants (Gulager-ish). I happen to think the actors probably give great performances, but then George makes them do another take. I can just hear him now, on set, "Natalie, that was great...but can you do it more boring?" Look at the list of actors that come off badly in this film: Samuel L. Jackson, Jimmy Smitts, Natalie Portman, Hayden Christensen, Stinking Christopher Lee. Great actors. I've even seen Hayden be great in non-Star Wars stuff.
There's also the possiblity that the performances are so bad because the actors are given such crappy dialogue to work through. (Padme to Anakin near the end of the movie....AFTER HE'S KILLED A BUNCH OF PEOPLE..."You're a good person!!"). That's possible too. Honestly I don't know why most of the actors are so wooden. But Ian McDiarmid and Ewan McGregor are the only ones that come off with good performances in my book. I don't know why they can rise above the bad writing better than the others...but they do. Freaking Sam Jackson has been flat-out bore-me-to-death awful in all three prequels. I think he's going for "wise" but he comes off as "the most boring professor you ever had in school."
-Freaking Yoda's speech pattern. I understand that in the original trilogy (and since) Yoda has a way of speaking backwards. It's part of his charm. But that way of speaking is on acid in Revenge of the Sith. I'm not sure there's a single line Yoda says that isn't backwards. And it got severely annoying to me. I think I growled about it aloud near the end when Yoda tries his best Ahnold-type line delivery "Not if anything to do about it...I have." Holy crappy overuse of a once-neat speech pattern, Batman!!! I mean, that line is bad enough, but saying it backwards is just cheesy. Took me right out of the scene.
-Whack Lightsaber duels. Here's the deal...it just doesn't matter that you have five-times more lightsaber duels in the film...if they're all going to be mostly bland and non-emotional. They are almost all of them short duels. There's not a single move (save for Yoda during a non-duel scene) with the saber that made me go "Whoa!" There's not any Jedi jumps in the duels. There aren't really even turns and tides in the duels. Remember in Jedi when Vader and Luke go back and forth, at times each of them seeming to have the edge? Well that doesn't happen here. In fact, it's like the two actors just approach each other and twirl the blades super fast and that counts as a duel. There is only one moment in the Ani/Obi duel where one of them has an edge over the other one. The rest of that duel is just a bunch of walking backwards on platforms while swinging away.
I have to say that the Darth Maul duel from Episode 1 is by far the best duel of the entire prequel trilogy. It has emotion and characterization and Jedi jumps and turns in the battle's tide. The Ani/Obi duel has none of that. It should be the most emotinally charged duel of the entire six-film saga...but it's not. It's sterile. Emotionless (except when Obi shouts "You were the chosen one."). They just swing swords for a while. I mean if Anakin is the most powerful Jedi (as the film mentions several times) then he should not only be doing cool moves and tricks we've never seen but he should also be DOMINATING Obi Wan. But he doesn't. No one ever really leads in the fight. No one's ever really near death during the fight. It's just ten minutes of saber sound effects and flashes of blue light.
-Yoda's weak-ass duel. Well, you're not going to see anything from Yoda you didn't see in ATOC. Jumps fast and furiously. Nothing new added to his fighting style. And the duel between Yoda and Sidious is lame, really. It's short too.
-The Jedi that accompany Mace to arrest Sidious/Palpatine go out like complete chumps. Sidious just jumps up and they do nothing. They don't parry or block with their blades. They just stand there and literally watch Sidious run them through. I know the scene is supposed to end with Mace and Sidious dueling...but these guys are either Jedi or they're not. If you want them to go out like chumps..then make them droids instead of Jedi. But no...three seconds after walking in the office, three Jedi are dead without even defending themselves. Don't Jedi sense things?!
-In fact, during the Order 66 mess...almost all the Jedi go out like chumps. There's one Jedi that get's surrounded by 7 droids who shoot him dead with blasters. But in the film's opening scene we see Obi and Ani in a hanger surrounded by about 40 of the same droids, and they have no problem handling them. A couple Jedi get shot in the back by Clone troopers during Order 66. And yet all through the films we've seen Jedi that "sense" things and react a split second before they're attacked. Yoda does it on the Wookie planet, sensing the clones are about to get him. So how come all the other Jedi are chumps who can't "sense" a thing? I'll tell you why....'cause Lucas is a moron who reworks his mythology to fit the pre-determined digital effects shot he wants to shoot.
-I really think Anakin should have been the one to take out more Jedi. He really only took out the six year olds. Clones took out the rest.
-The clone army takes out the Jedi without a single twinge of thought or remorse. I know they�re soldiers�and ultimately they report to the chancellor. But they aren�t droids. They�re humans. Clones. And in one scene they even show the clone being friendly with Obi Wan right before he gets the order to kill Obi Wan. And he just says, �Okay.� Not one second thought?!?! I�d have believed it more if they were droids. Humans have feelings. And even humans that eventually follow evil orders will take a moment to contemplate whether or not they should. Lucas just needed it to be easy. He was trying to show how quickly the Empire/Republic turned on the Jedi�and I get that. But the individual clones would have had pause there after receiving that order. A shrug at least. Give me something.
-Padme "secretly" pregnant. In the film's opening, Anakin sees Padme and runs to her. They hug. A few seconds later she announces to him that she's pregnant. The VERY NEXT SCENE shows her belly to be at least 6 months pregnant. Now...you tell me...when Anakin runs to her and hugs her, does her big huge swelling belly not give something away to Anakin?! He certainly seemed shocked to hear her say she was with child. Did he just think she'd been eating tons of burgers while he was away at the Outer Rim? Stupid. It's a small thing, but it's stupid. She's freaking months and months pregnant!!!! He should be able to see it literally, if not sense it with the Force for Pete's sake!!
And at the film's end...Obi Wan says, "The child is Anakin's isn't it?" And he says it like he's wise for knowing that. Like that's some big revelation?! Who else does he think Padme was sleeping with?! I mean, they're living together for crying out loud! Ani and Padme talk of having kept the relationship a secret...but they're sharing a penthouse apartment with C3PO as their freaking butler! A small quibble, but when seen with all the other glaring script continuity errors...it's ridiculous.
-Wookies. Nice to see Chewie. Don't get me wrong. Nice to see him. But there's just no reason for them to be in this movie, other than for Lucas to up the hype and interest in the film. We're not even ever told what's going on with the Wookie planet....why they're under attack....or if they end up saved in the end. It's just a mindless excuse to see some Wookie, so they write in a battle scene on their home world. If you're going to go there....then show us the outcome. Not showing the outcome just prooves that it's not important to the story. So don't put it in. Totally shameless.
-The freaking retarded COUGHING robot!!! I cannot stress enough how retarded it is to have a coughing robot. I know they tried to show with at least one shot that there was some sort of living organ inside the Grevious shell...but that's not enough. Give Yoda two lines or something to explain that Grevious used to be human....and then I'll have less problems with the freaking coughing robot!!!
- While we're on the subject of Grevious. A bad guy who can weild four sabers at once and spin them like helicoptor blades....should be more of a badass in fighting. Obi Wan took him out WAY too easy.
-Vader screaming "Noooooooooooooooooooo" and the Force crushing things around him when he learns of Padme's death. Really silly. Took the weight of the moment away by referencing Frankenstien and a hundred other cheesy horror movies. He even stumbles when walking. It's clear George was trying to make a Frankenstien moment....but he shouldn't have. It was silly.
-R2D2 at one point says "Uh-Oh." Enough said.
-Logic gaffes. The next-to-last shot of the film is Vader, Sidious, & Tarkin watching the Death Star be built. So, it takes 20-25 years to build a Death Star?!?! I mean, Luke is a baby here and is at least 20 in A New Hope, so that's how long is must have taken them to build it. But how come it only takes them a few years from the end of New Hope to the end of Return of the Jedi to build another one?
Also, how the hell does Obi Wan go from a thirty-year-old to freakin 68-year-old Alec Guiness...all in only 20-25 years between trilogies?!?! And while we're at it...Anakin aged significantly between prequels one and two while no one else aged.
Lucas just got lazy with the timeline. He wanted to show the death star to further make you think there's a connection between the trilogies...but completely forgot how many years need to take place before A New Hope's timeline even begins. Outrageous. Lucas should have titled this film "How to Succeed in Filmmaking Without Really Trying."
Jedi can sense things sometimes...but not when the script calls for them to be ambushed. I mentioned it earlier, but it's a logic lapse in my book.
THE HIGH GROUND!!!!! So, Mr. Lucas, you mean to tell me that the entire Anakin/Obi Wan duel hinges on which one of them has the high ground? THE FREAKING HIGH GROUND?!?!?! Man, I was so freaking pissed when Obi Wan said, "Don't try it Anakin...I've got the high ground." First of all, he had about two more inches above sea level than Anakin had...which is hardly high ground in my book. Second of all, can't freaking Jedi jump about six stories high? Isn't Anakin the best Jedi ever? Is he really that disabled by a two inch height loss to Obi Wan? I mean, this is the logic gaffe to end all logic gaffes. Two of the most powerful Jedi ever have been fighting on a lava planet for fifteen minutes and what decides the outcome of the fight?! The high ground. What is this, the Civil War? I think Lucas just couldn't figure out how to have Obi Wan win in a duel with Anakin (who is supposed to be the best)...so he cooked up this lame-ass "high ground" stuff. Geez, I almost walked out right there. It's just insulting. And it flies in the face of everything we've ever been told about Jedi and their abilities. I mean, if high ground were an issue, then would Yoda ever even win a single fight? No. Because he's a short-ass little muppet who stands two feet hight. Everyone would have high ground on him!!
-Lack of emotion. I say this film suffers from Matrix Reloaded Syndrome. It has no emotional weight. It's sterile. It's like Lucas spent two years making sure everything looked great (and it does!) but then only spend three weeks on the script. The duels, the dialogue, the character arcs...they all fell flat for me. Very flat. I think Hayden did a better job in this movie than in the last...but it's not enough to make me feel anything. He's still mostly a whiney bitch. "The Council doesn't respect me! Wah!"
-Millions of other little things. Padme naming each kid as it comes out of the womb was strange and forced. (Thanks Lucas, for writing in a scene where we learn Padme�s kids are Luke and Leia�which we surely didn�t know already.)
Okay, okay. I'll stop now. Here's the brief rundown of what I liked:
-Yoda, entering Sidious's office, throwing the two red guards to the ground with a wave of his hand. That was great.
-Yoda, in the cool lightsaber move I referenced earlier, throws his saber javelin style into the chest of a robot�then jumps on the robot�s chest and rips his blade back out. Really cool!
-The silent (thankfully free of awful dialogue) scene with Padme and Anakin both contemplating things at the same time, and on opposite ends of the city. Nice moment.
-The burning Jedi Temple was cool too.
-Sidious is awesome...or rather Ian McDiarmid is awesome. He really kicks ass and chews up scenes in this movie. His lines drip with depth and he's the only character that really makes you care about or feel anything. Great job.
-Music. John Williams continues to rule. He is awesome. I've been singing Duel of the Fates for about 24 hours now.
-Hearing James Earl Jones do Vader again.
-The Twin Suns of Tatooine.
-R2D2's antics in the hanger. Felt like classic Star Wars...like classic R2. Great stuff...except for the "Uh-Oh" line he has later.
-Hearing Chewie growl again.
-No gay-ass lines from 3PO.
-No Jar Jar lines at all.
Man, you know it's a bad sign when your favorite things about a movie are the awful things they could have put in but didn't.
I'm sorry to dump on you if you feel the opposite of me. I'm sure Chris and I will have many a friendly debate about this movie. And I�m not trying to say he�s wrong�film is subjective, not objective. I know Chris well enough by now to know that he is fair in his assessments. I won�t be trying to convince him he�s wrong to love the movie because I know he has his good reasons why he liked it. But there are tons that will drool over it (Aint It Cool News, I�m looking in your direction) simply because their inner geek tells them they should.
But I hated it. I felt nothing during it and after watching it. I cannot add up the parts of this film and come up with anything that�s good. The bad is just too overwhelming. The story seems fine, but the filming of it took several wrong turns. Am I really so wrong for simply wanting the film to make sense? I just think it's total crap. And we'll never get another one. Thanks George, for insisting you direct and write these prequels. You're an idiot.
posted by Kennelworthy @ 5/18/2005 03:12:00 PM
37 comments
37 Comments:
Wow! I'll be checking this thing out tommorrow; it will be interesting to see which way I lean in our trifecta. Maybe I'll take the "High Ground." Also, you should not be ashamed for wanting a movie to make sense (read my "Palindromes" review). And I too think that Spacehog is a great band; highly underrated.
I think you make some fine points, and I'm not going to dissect any of the qualms you have with it--I'll just let my review stand in for my opinion. I've now seen it twice and I still love it. I know that I had my own problems with some of the things you mention; however, they didn't bother me nearly as much.
Personally, I felt like this was what the first one should have been, and then there would have been time to make the next two even better. Hence, my comment about how this episode certainly doesn't save the series.
I'm fully expecting to be the minority on this blog when everyone here sees it.
Well I am greatly looking forward to hearing more and more opinions of this movie from my friends and fellow bloggers. I talked to Chris about it last night for a bit, and while it doesn't sound as though either of us are going to be changing our opinions soon, it was nice to realize that we both saw a lot of the same faults. Like you said, Chris, they just didn't bother you as much as they did me. And I'm trying to figure out why they did.
I liked your point about this movie not saving the trilogy, and that this is what the first prequel should have been like, quality-wise. I agree. Had this been the first prequel I don't think my gripes would have been as many or as great. I do think it's possible that my reaction to Sith was born out of a six year history of these prequels mostly sucking. Perhaps this newest film just sent me over the edge? It's possible.
I just can't get past the stuff I mentioned in my review. The bad and the ugly and the boring just stood out...amplified....way more than the good stuff.
Part of the problem for me is that this is the last one. There won't be any more. Here's George's chance to save the franchise...to make fans believe again. And instead of hiring someone like Kirshner (or, hey...Frank Darabont) to direct it and imbue it with some feeling and heart...he does it himself. I don't think even people who love the movie like Chris would try and argue that Lucas was the best director for this. I think even those who love it would say that it could have been better with another director (and maybe another writer).
Let's face it. Lucas created (some say lifted...I don't say that) a great universe and mythology. His stories are great. But somewhere along the line, like most Hollywood types, he decided he was a great director too.
What kills me is that Spielberg saw this movie and cried. He wept!! That means that Spielberg is either the biggest Star Wars nerd in the history of Star Wars nerds...or it means that he knows nothing about directing great movies and just gets lucky everytime out.
Unless he cried at how inconsistent and unfulfilling it was.
But do you really think Spielberg thought Anakin and Padme's lines were great?
In fact, forget Kirshner and Darabont....Lucas should have let Steven direct this thing. Then....we would all be singing it's praises.
Oh yeah. I forgot about the damn sarcastic robot too!
Grevious snatches something (don't remember what...one of the light sabers?) from the hands of a nearby soldier droid...and that droid turns to Grevious and says...dripping with sarcasm..."You're welcome!"
What?! Again, another little thing...but geez they add up. You can't go five minutes in this movie without something making no sense. Why, with millions and likely billions of these droids in the droid army...why would this one droid be Mr. FunnyPants?
Rant over.
Brilliant dissection! I wonder if I will enjoy the film as much as I enjoyed laughing at your take on it.
Hope so!
I hope anyone that wants to enjoy this movie enjoys it. Heck, I wanted to enjoy it. Didn't though.
Glad you were able to find some fun in the review. And remember...always take the high ground! You never know when it will come in handy.
Thank you!!!!!
I was soooooo pissed when I left the theater for thoses reasons. The other reason was, what made Ani actually turn. Just because he didn't get respect?!?!?! Come on! How 'bout telling us that the Jedi's knew of a way to save Patiline, but would not. THAT would make a good reason for him to turn. Plus, when he did turn, it was like he did it in about 2 seconds, with no emotions.
Oh and one other thing...when Yoda meets chewbacca...ummmmm if cheiw knew of yoda, don't ya think he might also know of obi one kenobi? Why the hell didn't he know him in the first movie then????? arrrrrrrrrrrgh!
Wow, I�m glad I randomly found your blog. Yesterday I just clicked the �next blog� button for about an hour at work until I found Star Wars related blog entries.
First of all, I surprisingly mostly agree with you. I didn�t expect to. I thought I would read your review and hate it, but as I read it I found you brought up the same things that were in the back of my mind that I just didn�t want to think about because I wanted to like this movie so badly.
And I do like it. Don�t get me wrong. It had worthiness to it for sure. And it beats watching 1 and 2.
You also forgot the suckiness of not getting to see Yoda go to Dagobah and not getting to see Qui Gon again even though Yoda said that he was going to train Obi Wan in the whole �ghost� thing. As soon as Yoda said that I was like, �Yes! We get to see Qui Gon again.� But no such luck.
I totally agree that:
1. the Jedi were taken out far too easily
2. Anakin and Padme live together yet NO ONE knows they are married or that the kid is his???
3. Where do the names Luke and Leia come from?
4. The TKs express no remorse or hesitation in killing their Jedi friends.
5. Anakin went from being hesitant about following the emperor to killing younglings in .5 seconds. How is that going to save Padme??
As for the General Grievous thing � Yoda didn�t need to explain him because anyone who would be bothered by a coughing robot would also care enough to have read about the characters before seeing the movie. If you do a tiny bit of research you find out why he is the way he is. Or even watch the clone wars cartoon.
Besides that I entirely agree. Great review! I�m sad it�s the end.
Well...while I'm glad you enjoyed the review...and I'm glad you agree with me mostly...I have to say that the comment regarding the coughing robot doesn't make sense.
Are you saying I should have to read all the books and watch the cartoon Clone Wars to fully enjoy Revenge of the Sith? I'm sure that explanation of his cough was in those cartoons...of which I didn't see all. I'm sure it's in the novel. But I'm going to go broke pretty quick if I have to buy and read the novelization of every movie I go to. The movie has to be self-contained. It has to make sense from beginning to end without relying on cartoons or books or my having read the private personal journal of George Lucas.
A coughing robot is dumb. A coughing robot with an explanation as to why he coughs is slightly less dumb--but is still dumb. But I can't agree that it's up to the film viewer to go out and by up all the extraneous Star Wars universe stuff. That's exactly what Lucas wants you to believe...and exactly why he's got billions.
I'm not buying this prevelant logic I'm hearing that real Star Wars fans buy everything. Real Star Wars fans love the movie blindly. Who cares if there's some obscure cartoon reference to why Grevious coughs...if it's not in the movie then millions of us don't get it.
Here's what you wrote: "anyone who would be bothered by a coughing robot would also care enough to have read about the characters before seeing the movie." What?! Are you serious? No. You're wrong. A film viewer should be able to walk into a movie completely clueless about that film and still be given enough information in the film itself to make it all make sense.
Just droppin' in to say, I think this is the most comments we've ever had on one post, and I'll add to the total.
�Here's what you wrote: "anyone who would be bothered by a coughing robot would also care enough to have read about the characters before seeing the movie." What?! Are you serious? No. You're wrong. A film viewer should be able to walk into a movie completely clueless about that film and still be given enough information in the film itself to make it all make sense.�
Okay, I can see how that came out wrong. Let me clarify that hazy comment a bit. What I meant was that people who don�t enjoy SW that much in the first place are, first and foremost, not going to enjoy this movie much. The people who are nitpicky about stuff, like you (and me. It�s not an insult) care about where the films are going and such. So more of what I meant was that people who would have even noticed or cared about a robot coughing might have actually seen/read/heard all the background info about it anyway.
I personally am not one of those people. The only reason I knew the background on general grievous is because of friends telling me about it. So yes, it was odd. But I�ll bet you half the people who don�t care that much about the movie wouldn�t notice anyway. You noticed because you care about SW. you wanted to like it. Instead you were sorely disappointed.
Yes, he does make millions off all the books and stuff, but hey, that�s half the fun. : ) Personally, I think GL would make a killing if he made the Heir to the Empire trilogy into a third trilogy of films.
I think you�d see I�m not quite as far off the mark in my own review I did on my blog. Sorry about the confusion.
Cool. I misunderstood you then. Sorry about that.
I thought you were saying I didn't care about Star Wars if I didn't go read the books first. I can see now that you weren't. Read your blog review too. Nice job.
I would, by the way, LOVE to see another trilogy, set after ROTJ...but only if Lucas hires a screenwriter and director other than himself. Otherwise...it'll just be more of the same mess.
Yes, it would only be good with as little GL involvement as possible.
Have you read any of Timothy Zahn�s SW books? Really great writing. Just how Star Wars should be.
Thanks for the compliment on my review. I�m really enjoying reading what all of you guys have written too. It keeps reminding me of more to add. I�ve made two or three edits already. : )
About 10 years ago or so I read one book. It was set after ROTJ, and all I remember is Han and Leia had kids...and Luke was in some forest with a female character who shares your screen name.
Hard to recall, but I think I liked it. But I don't know if that book was by the author you named.
If it had Mara Jade in it, it was most likely by TZ as he made her up. But I could be wrong. I mean, she has been in other books. But the forest thing sounds a lot like the trilogy I'm talking about.
The expanded universe is so great. I actually get made fun of for liking it so much by some of my friends. We're in the 501st together (www.501neg.com if you haven't a clue what I'm talking about) and Jade isn't a "canon" costume. Ah, the elite levels of geekiness. lol.
I'll get to think of more stuff for additions to my review when I get to see the movie again for free this weekend. Yes, I am psyched. It's a "thank you" from the theater that me and some of the other 501st members are going to for their premiere. Hey, at least it's free.
Wow, I really need to stop leaving comments here. This is becoming addicting. I may need a twelve step program. . .
11 steps. You've already taken the first step by admitting you have a problem.
I'm going to leave a comment even though I haven't seen the film yet. Ha!
I actually couldn't have agreed more with your review. Yes ROTS was "better" than EPI and EPII, but not much. I thought the story was REALLY hard to swallow. Midi-chlorians, Qui-Gon mastering immortality... ugh. Darth was not nearly bad-ass enough for me. Darth should absolutely drip with ego and meglomania! I really want a crack at re-writing the prequels.
The opening scene blew it up for me... Droids tearing up Obi-Wan's ship? Anyone? Anyone? The Force? Can I get a little Force action from the back section? That kind of oversight is just abominable. Absolutely.
Phil Hartman as Frankenstein as Darth Vader. Fire, bad, people--fire, bad.
And when was Annie planning on figuring out this whole life-saving side of the Force? Sort of a limited time-frame before the childs are bein' a-born, and figurin' that you're taking some old coot's word that it exists, don'tcha think seeing some results would've been a concern before you go around killing little kids and slaughtering people left, right, and centre? Oh, but he chopped Macey's arm off because Jedi law says you can't kill an unarmed opponent. And he feels so bad for it. He doesn't deserve to be good anymore, even if he still says he wants save Padme. Errr... yyyy-eahhh...
George Lucas... You did it--you blew it up! Damn you! Damn you to Hell!
That was a fun comment. Glad you left it.
Laughed pretty hard at the Phil Hartman reference. That used to be one of my favorite recurring sketches. My all time favorite moment was when the three were looking at a centerfold. Says Tonto, "Tonto live on her like reservation!"
God it makes me feel better reading this blog!!! There are still intelligent people on this Earth!
BTW, I haven't seen anyone mentioning the scene in the beginning where they destroy the shield generator of the ship where Palpatine was being held. For God's sake, the generator was outside the shield, unprotected!!! Right next to the hangar entry!!! And then they land with half of the "freakin" thing. Aerodynamics, anyone?
These things are made to fly in space, not land!
Antoher stupid thing, don't they have the technology to see that Padme has twins??
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but at other times I think you're getting a bit carried away with your rant. Which is your right, of course, but we're not talking about Citizen Kane or the Godfather here, so it's unseemly to judge Star Wars by the same rubric of verisimilitude.
It also doesn't make sense for you to get mad about the supposed Obi-Wan age discrepancy from episodes 3-4, and then be so dismissive about the coughing robot. What's wrong with a coughing robot when it isn't completely a robot?
It's unexpected and ends up making sense. It also doesn't make sense for you to criticize Lucas for putting in Luke and Leia's names but not putting in the fact that Grievous was previously human. You come off as a "whiney bitch" from an undergrad (or grad, really) writing workshop :)
Don't get me wrong I definitely agree that the Anakin - Padme dialogue was beyond cringeworthy, as was Vader's "Nooooooo." You mentioning Tom Stoppard is pretty funny, because I left the theater thinking, "Well, it wasn't a play by him or George Bernard Shaw or anything." And all too often I found myself laughing when I'm sure that wasn't Lucas' intent.
There's a few other things I'd like to address. One, hell yeah it takes 20-25 years to build a Death Star. Have you SEEN the Death Star? It's the fucking Death Star! Two, the thing that you seem to have the most problem with, (HIGHER GROUND!!!!) is where you're most off base. This is strictly out of Sun Tzu's _Art of War_, and has nothing to do with Yoda's height:
"10. With regard to precipitous heights, if you are beforehand with your adversary, you should occupy the raised and sunny spots, and there wait for him to come up.
11. If the enemy has occupied them before you, do not follow him, but retreat and try to entice him away."
Etc. The point is that Anakin has gotten so caught up in the Force that his ego obscures one of the basic tenets of combat.
So again, there's a lot to criticize in the movie, if that's what you're looking for (and sometimes, regardless of what you're looking for). One aspect of the movie I enjoyed, being an American familiar with Rome / Gibbon et al, was the transition of a democracy to an empire. Especially Anakin's line "if you're not with me, you're against me."
"I agree with you, but you're a whiney bitch."
That's essentially what I got out of your post. I'm glad you came by and I hope you do again. I'm also glad you agree with some of my opinions. But your post didn't make much sense to me.
I don't want to go point-by-point here and argue with you (I've already devoted too many posts and comments to doing that here with my fellow L&N guys), but I do have a few points to make:
-I guess the coughing robot thing is a matter of taste. To you it tasted fine, likely because you have seen the Clone Wars cartoons or have read the novel--both of which explain Grevious' cough from what I hear. To me it tasted like ass....ass like only a 12-year-old can write. It wasn't explained, and therefore it made no sense.
-I didn't say I hated that Lucas put the twins' names in the movie. I said the scene felt weird. I said having Padme name them one at a time as they come out of the womb was strange. I think they could have given us one scene, showing her and Anakin discussing names or something. Do I think that they needed a scene showing us their names? No. But my beef is more with how it was played than with the fact that it was included at all.
-Of all my beefs, the Death Star is the easiest one to give up. I will concede that it's possible it took that long to build. And then by ROTJ, they did it faster because they'd already done it. Now, I do think a man like Palpatine/Sidious, who has millions and billions of clones at his disposal, could probably whip that thing together much faster than 25 years...but it's not something I'm willing to argue about.
-Does Sun Tzu's Art of War have a chapter specifically for superheroes? For Jedi that can jump several stories high? That can pull or push things with their brains? Give me a break! You can't honestly be applying The Art of War to a science fiction universe where characters have superhuman abilities, can you?! I don't care how caught up in the moment Anakin was...he doesn't need the high ground. He can jump over your damn house!!!
-I also think it's preposterous to say that since this movie never expected to win Best Picture we should silence our complaints. I agree, it's not the Godfather. It's not even supposed to be. It's escapist, sci-fi, adventure. But it still needs to make sense. It still needs good acting and good dialogue. I refuse to say "This movie is not supposed to be good, and it succeeded in being bad, therefore it's good." That fan logic doesn't add up to me. I know it's Star Wars, I grew up on the stuff. Just give me something logical. Give me something to watch where I'm not distracted every five minutes by cheap horror rip-offs or groan-inducing dialogue. That's that.
All that said, I'm glad you and I agree on a lot of it. I think had Lucas allowed someone else to write his story into a script and then allowed someone else to film it....we wouldn't even be having these conversations. At the end of the day, despite our slight differences in specifics...we agree that this movie could have (and should have) been far better than it was.
kennelworthy, I loved your blog on the latest (and last) installment of Star Wars. However, I must say, at least, one thing, "suspend disbelief." This is pretty much rule #1 with sci-fi movies; especially, sci-fi movies directed by Lucas. Knowing the history of Star Wars (with the exception of Empire..), any movie directed by Lucas is going to lack dialog, continuity, etc. Star Wars' fans (well most of us), have accepted this since Jedi. You also mention the fight scenes and the fact that the Jedi's went "down" too easily. I agree with this; however, how long do you expect this movie to be, 5 hours? Yes, Lucas is not much of a writer, director or an editor. But I do give him at least one thing, he knows how to put "arses" in the seats (see the running records of the Sith). I, for one, enjoyed the movie. I try not to be too critical when it comes to a Lucas film, because I know what I'm instore for before and when watching the movie. It is a bit "sad" the Star Wars saga is over....maybe it's a good thing. Now we do not have to have these discussions about Lucas anymore :).
Howdy. Glad you stopped by. Glad you love the blog on Star Wars.
Let me take a moment to clarify my opinion on something you touched on, though (after all, blogs promote discussion, not assimilation):
"Suspension of Disblief" is for all movies, not just sci-fi. It is also not something that is incumbent upon the viewer to manifest. The "burden of proof," if you will, on suspension of disbelief is the filmmaker's mandate, not mine. They have to make a film plausible enough to allow me to suspend my disbelief.
What I think you mean to say is that I'm maybe a bit overly critical...that I'm forcefully holding back my suspension of disbelief--something a very skeptical viewer can do from time to time. I tried to address that concern in the original post, and let me again state it for the record: I tend to overpraise when a film doesn't deliver to my expectations. And when I go in expecting crap, I usually have a good time...even when the film is crap (see Chronicles of Riddick, one of the worst movies I ever had a good time at). I also managed movie theaters for 10 years, and in that time watched virtually every movie released (closer to 80 or 90% actually). That process led me to be fairly objective. I've seen more than my fair share of surprises, both films that overdelivered and those that underdelivered. I'm no professional critic (and you should look to L&N's own Chris for those types of reviews).
I also tried to address that I'm a sci-fi and Star Wars fan. I know (and stated in my review) that Lucas tends to write bad dialogue, and that Star Wars performances are touch and go. But think back to the original...and where Mark Hamil does his bad acting thing....there's still Harrison Ford, Alec Guiness, Carrie Fisher, and James Earl Jones...all great actors giving great performances. The prequels, on the other hand, are full of bad performances from good actors.
Plus, just because we expect some bad things in a Star Wars movie, doesn't mean it's okay when they actually appear, especially when they far outnumber the good things. Again, I refuse to accept the logic that we should reward someone for failing just because we expected it. "I expect crap, so when I get crap...I call it gold." That logic doesn't make sense to me.
I also disagree that he puts butts in the seats. The Star Wars universe puts butts in the seats. Granted, Lucas created that...and he deserves all the credit for that, no doubt. But wait until Lucas puts out his first self-proclaimed intimate independent film (non-Star Wars) and I guarantee you it won't gross $100 million opening weekend. Now Spielberg, he puts butts in the seats.
Sounds like you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on some of this stuff. And that's what's great about film...each reaction is personalized. It's one of the furthest things from objective that exists.
Again, glad you stopped by. Even more glad you shared your thoughts...especially since they aren't all in total agreement.
well put, again. However, I must point out a few things. 1. Lucas, if he decides to put out an "independant" film, God help him (we are in complete agreement here). 2. Because he is the "creator" of Star Wars, and Star Wars has such an incredible following, he does indeed put butts in the seats. 3. Due to historical "fact," we, as an audience, should expect the "bad dialog" and unusual logic faults. I hate when Lucas directs, but as a Star Wars fan since the beginning, I "adapt" to his "crappy" directing. It's definitely not "gold," but it's a "soap opera." :) 4. "Suspension of Disblief" is more in the hands of the audience than in the "director." Because of point #3, we, as an audience should take it upon ourselves to "suspend our belief" to whatever extent necessary to make the movie more enjoyable. To do otherwise, as you clearly have stated, would cause one to overly critize a movie than enjoy it's "idea" and "heart" (sometimes a bit hard to explain). However, it is only human to do so. Finally, kennelworthy, you make it sound so "legal" when explaining yourself. Relax, it's only a movie. If you did not like the movie as a "whole," (which you have clearly stated :) ), read the books....they are much better. And yes, I do like having these constructive dialogs. It's enjoyable.
Okay, so what you're saying is you didn't hate the movie as much as me, but you also didn't think it was top shelf...am I right?
That's fair.
I think "suspension of disbelief" is probably the responsibility of both the viewer and the filmmaker. Viewers have to try and get rid of baggage in order to get lost in the movie, and the filmmaker has to make a sensible and captivating film as well. I think you and I just disagree on the exact proportions of that...which side bears more weight.
It sounds like we generally agree on most things here, with only minor differences. And hey, I'd be fine if we didn't agree.
I see your point on Lucas...as the creator of Star Wars he is the one who "puts butts in the seats." But my point on the next film he makes is that it is not his name alone that accomplishes that. It is his status as the Star Wars creator. He puts out something with Star Wars on it, and the butts will be in the seats...and he deserves some or most or all of the credit for that. But if he puts out American Graffiti 2: More Graffiti...well, the butts will be in other auditoriums.
Spielberg, on the other hand, could probably release just about any kind of movie and we'd flock to it (okay, so not for Amistad 2: More Amistad). He has a much more established reputation as a filmmaker than Lucas. (Which is why I'm glad Steven's directing Indy 4 and not George...and also why I wish Steven had directed Star Wars).
By the way, thanks for helping push us up over 30 comments...a record indeed for our little blog!
Kennelworthy--
Thank you so much for your review-- I agree with almost everything you said and it was such a relief for me to find it-- everyone at my job gushed about the film, and felt I was being overly critical when I brought up many of the flaws that you mention in your review.
In regards to the whole "suspension of belief": many of my favorite sci-fi/fantasy movies require suspension of belief, notably superhero movies like the X-Men or Spider-Man franchises.
However, in my experience once you suspend your disbelief over said film's fantastic/unrealistic elements, the movie should at least make sense according to its own established set of rules-- i.e, I suspend my belief that a human such as Anakin can jump 2 stories high, and I'm ok with that; what I'm not ok with his him jumping 2 stories high in one part of the movie and then him not being able to do so later on in the film ("High Ground" scene). I suspend my belief when I accept the idea of warriors who are so telepathic that they can sense things happening at the other end of the universe, but having done so the same warriors should at least get a nagging feeling when everyone around them is plotting their demise.
The time discrepancy thing kills me too-- one Death Star taking 20+ years to build would be ok with me if it hadn't taken only a few years to build the one in Jedi (yeah, yeah, you can rationalize it away, saying that the second time Sideous knew what he was doing, or that he started building the 2nd one before the first one even got destroyed, but it still bothers me).
I still managed to enjoy the movie, however, and unlike Kennelworthy enjoyed it more than the first two prequels, which I found to be outrageously bad and infantile (fart jokes, snickering bounty hunter kids, blubbering Gungens, aliens based on racial stereotypes and/or looking like they belong in a Disney movie, little kids blowing up huge space stations effortlessly....I could go on for hours).
While I'm fully indulging my inner nerd, allow me to express my general frustration with George Lucas and his irrepressable tendancy to revise (he would say "improve") his own films. It infuriates me that the Star Wars trilogy released on DVD doesn't have the option of viewing the original, un-tampered with films-- I understand Lucas wanting to tweak certain things to make the original trilogy more consistent with the newer (=coughcough= wacker) films, but how about at least giving fans a choice between the two?
I think the problem with Lucas and a lot of artists who make it in general is that they fail to realize that when a creative endeavor makes it big, really big, it ceases to be the sole property of the creator, and becomes part of the collective consciousness-- now don't get me wrong here, hear me out:
I grew up with the original Star Wars trilogy, as a kid I had all the toys, Darth Vader costumes, everthing-- I had a significant emotional investment in that universe, and the way characters/events unfolded as depicted in those movies. To me Han Solo will always have fired on Greedo first (because he's a sly smuggler whose shady nature is redeemed at the end of the movie) to me The Force will always be an immense "energy field generated by all living things," with all the spiritual ramifications/undertones intact, rather than something generated by little plankton in your blood or cells or whatever (and I don't want to hear that midichloreans make it more "scientific," because if Star Wars was so scientific there wouldn't be any noise in any of the space scenes, there's no sound in space).
George Lucas' revisionist tendencies are to me a case of his own ego as an artist getting in the way of the integrity of his earlier work-- to him Star Wars is apparently just another creative endeavor, a poem in a journal that can be endlessly revised, rather than a mythology that was embraced and shared by millions of fans.
If you're going to mess with the original saga, at least give viewers the option of being able view the version that most people grew up with, rather than pretending it didn't happen.
Another example: THX-1138. Lucas made a bunch of revisions that he thought made the film "better"-- adding in digital extras, phony-looking CGI mutants, etc... that's fine, but nowhere on that DVD can one watch the original version that was created by edgy, 20-something aspiring filmmaker George Lucas, rather than older, softened millionaire George Lucas-- worst of all, the "making of" documentary that comes with THX-1138 has all this talk of the film's original low-tech charm and how it embodied its time juxtaposed over scenes which were digitally enhanced!!!!! Aaaaaargh!!!!!
At least put those comments over scenes that weren't tampered with!!!! Don't show us recently rendered digital cities while talking about what was innovative about the movie when it was made in the 70s!!!!
Alright, I'm going to stop now, I really could go on for hours.....
Thankyouthankyouthankyou!!!!
Yours is the first review I read that reflected my feelings about this travesty, this visually grandiose merchandising scheme.
I was 12 when the first Star Wars movie came out. I saw it four times at the theater. It was magical.
Maybe that's where my bias against the new series comes from. Or they just suck. Yeah, that's it.
I LOVE the idiosyncrasies you and others have pointed out. The opening scene was a killer for me. One small thing was when the little droids chewing up the outside of Obi-Wan's ship were dislodged, they flew off as if they were flying through an atmosphere. And the battleship going "down," complete with everybody comically falling towards the front. Up? Down? You're in SPACE!!!. Then the landing with half a ship, no control surfaces intact. Ouch.
On suspension of disbelief: It only seems possible when the story is a complete capsule. If something cannot be explained by what we know in this world, it ought to be explained within the story.
Then again, I have no idea how a lightsaber works, but I think they're cool.
Personally, I feel the dignity and magic have been removed from these films and been replaced with smoke & mirrors. Like a casino. It's got flashing lights and loud noises, with the occasional payoff, but deep down, it's just basically sad.
re: earlier message
meant "suspension of disbelief"
while we're at it, why can't a Jedi make a simple leap from point A to point B without turning it into a high-dive competition of twirls and somersaults? Too much gratuitous CGI, says I.
Wow! Glad so many are coming by. Seems that I'm not alone in my opinion of the movie.
Anyone wanna take bets on whether we get to 40 comments on this sucker? Put me down for yes...we will.
I like what the poster said about suspension of disbelief, and that even movies that break our known scientific rules have a responsibility to adhere to a certain standard of consistency. It wouldn't make a lot of sense if Spiderman was able to defeat Doc Ock by suddenly and shockingly discovering that he can fly.
I have no problem swallowing that fireballs erupt in Star Wars space battles. But like the poster also said, if you tell us Jedi can do things we mere humans can't...you have to be consistent in their abilities if you want us to hang on to our suspension of disbelief.
I never said I wanted this movie to make sense in the real world's rules...I just said I wanted it to make sense when lined up with the other films.
Another gripe: Doesn't Obi Wan say, regarding Luke, in the original trilogy..."that boy is our last hope?" And then doesn't Yoda say, "No...there is another." And then doesn't Obi shoot him a look like this is news to him? The same Obi that we just learned delivered the twins? Stuff like that doesn't make sense. Sith needed to fit like the last piece of the puzzle. Instead, Lucas crammed in a piece from another puzzle altogether...much like my 2-year-old nephew would do.
Big up! to Kennelworthy what a great dissection. At first seeing the final installment of the trilogy I loved it and since then I have seen it three times. But I do agree that there are alot of flaws as you have mentioned. I have not laughed so hard in a long time...thanks for that you made my day. But you are right about the dual scene...it isn't all that...I would put Phantom Menace and Empire duels as probably the greastest of the saga.
The most confusing flaw for me in the star wars saga is in New Hope when Obi-Wan saves Luke from the Tuskan raiders he claims and I quote "I don't seem to remember owning a droid" - referring to R2-D2...Kennelworthy have I missed something here?
Dude okay if you didn't like the fucking movie then don't bash it and POST IT ON A FORUM THAT ALL YOU CAN READ IS STAR WARS REVENGE OF THE SITH/ ALSO IF YOU REALLY UNDERSTOOD THE MOVIE YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED IT/ i don't care if you liked it or not but you don't have to be a HUGE dick because you didn't like it its not like the others who didn't like it went and turned into a prick just so he could COMPLAIN ABOUT A GOD DAMN MOVIE/ ok heres what i have to say
1. the movie cant be all fighting it would be even more boring if there was only grunts screams and sounds of lightsabers
2. i would like for you to be a better actor in their parts when you cant see where you are and also i can't say that it was horrible acting i loved it
3. whoopti doo if yoda speach gets annoying its yoda he cant be 100% perfect that would make the movie retarded
4. there is emotion but you are to absent minded to note facial expressions/ i do agree phantom menace ending battle is the greatest/ but the battles have to be some what short or else it would be a 3 1/2 hour movie that most ppl would have fell asleep in
5. well yoda is master in a lightsaber style that is fast, and acrobatic/ also we already knew yoda was gunna lose
6. did you notice how fast palpatine is he could have easily force stasised the jedi/ also kit fisto survived a longer time he got to fight
7. 7 clone troopers against a single jedi is rather hard/ 40 normal battle droids against 2 jedi is barely also yoda has a higher mediclorian count making him more tuned with the force which brings up the fact that jedi cant just use all the force powers they want it does take energy out of them
8. yes it is odd that anakin barely kills any jedi but there are a but load of jedi and you might not see the part in which he may kill jedi because of other scenes
9. actually your wrong with the clones they may be clones of humans but they have to folow the rules, yet if you read any book about the clones or play battlefield 2 it states that many of the clones did not wish to harm the jedi but they must for if one clone broke the rules they would be killed fastly
10. if you were gone from your wife for a long time would you suspect they be exactly the same and you do see her stomach is big when you first see her but the camera is tilted to a straight angle
11. actually obi-wan and the jedi are not aware of padme and anakin living together but obviouisly obi-wan would suspect something when she is wondering about anakin 99 % of the time
12. well a battle on the wookie planet wouldn't be possible if there were no wookies
13. grievous is not a robot he is a cyborg (dee dee dee) he has a heart dip shit/ also you call that easy he came very close to death alot but if you someone in THE HEART would you expect them to live
14. what would you say if you were the death of your love/ how do you expect someone to walk when they have gone a rather long time with out legs
15.okay you make sense here but you ignore reason well it shows it being built well if you build something for the first time it take s a longer amount of time then it does to make the same thing again/ obi wan was more around 32 in starwars 3 and in new hope he was 56 though he does look old but at aage 32 and already having grey hairs how do you think he would look
16. it matters on the jedi, and matters on the connection with the force they have
17. see if anakin jumped alot higher he could of hit the ground and tumbled down giving obi wan the chance to kill him like that/ actually there is a scene where anakin has a chance to kill obi-wan but he can not do it a sign of remorse and regret
18. you really don't understand emotion you tink that it is all rage and scream well there was much sadness, regret and other emotions that are more depressing then "ahh im going to slaughter you"
19. hmmm did you ever think maybe there would be kids who haven't seen 4, 5, and 6 yet so thats where i conclude my rant and here is my ending
IM DONE OK YOU CAN GO BE A DICK TO OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU LIKE TAKING PILES OF SHIT ON PEOPLE MOOD SO BY YOU FUCKING DUMB ASS CRITIC
Awesome comment, man! Without even a hint of sarcasm....you made my day...
....roughly 2.5 years after I wrote this. Sweet.
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